Hey everyone, I just wanted to say that I used to think all MLMs were bad

That was yesterday. Then I got introduced to a new kind of business opportunity by a complete stranger. And boy I’m glad I did.
This one’s different. They really care about people. And they have great products — products that are literally 10,000 times better than anything else out there. Unscientific tests prove it. AND you make lots of money. Yesterday I was living in an apartment. Today, I own a 5 million dollar home — AND my own business of course. This is what happens when you get involved with the RIGHT MLM. Your life changes in one day. Think about this when you generalize and say all MLMs are bad.

I moved recently from northern Illinois to SW Ohio

and was shopping in the grocery section of the local Wal-Mart a couple of days after I’d moved in, when a woman came up to me and asked me whether I was a Reds fan (I was wearing a Cubs cap – yes, I’m the longsuffering sort, I suppose – and the designs of the C’s for the Cubs and Reds are clearly different, but she was looking for any opening to strike up a conversation, as you’ll soon note). I said no, and that I had recently moved from Illinois. We introduced ourselves to each other (her name is Sondra), and then she asked me whether I’d be interested in making some extra money either full or part-time.

When I heard that, an alarm bell went off in my head (thanks in part to the horror stories I’ve read here), but I thought there was no harm in hearing her sales pitch later on, so we exchanged phone numbers and went our separate ways.

The following evening, she called me to sell me on Primerica. I didn’t want to commit to anything – even though she would have preferred that I do so – so I told her I would think about her offer to come to an initial meeting at the local PFS office the following Tuesday, then hung up.

I then went into ‘snoop mode’ via Google, and had my worst suspicions confirmed. PFS is an MLM that has, like other MLM’s, left a trail of tears in its wake. PFS tells you that via their simple interest plan, you’ll pay off your mortgage and other debts earlier, and pay less along the way. What they don’t tell you is that you will actually end up paying just as much, if not more, through their plan, and that if your financial situation ever changes and you want to restructure your plan (or if you ever miss a payment to PFS), you’re screwed, as your payments then go way up. In short, PFS gets their hooks into a lot of low-income people who have made poor financial decisions and are looking for a way out.

After finding all of this out, I called Sondra back and got voice mail – my message was ‘Thanks, but no thanks.’ She was good enough not to call back to try to pressure me any further.

I’ve been very busy the past few months, so maybe I’ve missed the PFS horror stories on this forum. Maybe some of you have Primerica stories to share. In any event, I’m glad that this forum exists, as it’s helped me to hone my BS radar.

We’ll get this straight eventually!

The book of Diamonds & up is called the “Profiles Of Success.” There are several editions of this book.

The book, “Merchants Of Deception” is an eBook by Eric Scheibeler. Other than looking in on this group from time to time, he has little connection here. He, Bo Short and my wife and I appeared on Dateline NBC to talk about the business and the tools scam.

This group was founded by Ruth Carter, who also (btw) wrote a book. Her book is called “Amway Motivational Organizations: Behind The Smoke And Mirrors.”

No, no I was talking about the fancy glossy book

with the pictures of the diamonds in it, that we all took the our meetings to “wow” those that we were trying to dupe into “the business.” I renamed it from Profile of Success to “Profiles of Deception” which is what the whole business in the Yager System was, a big scam, a big deception! The book “Merchants of Deception” is an entirely different animal written by the orignial founder (?) of this Blog.

OK I will bite

What is the name of this goofy MLM that works? I am sure that either myself or someone else in this Blog will prove you wrong. As PW says lets see the proof. Post your tax papers.
What is this product that is so great? If it is so great have I ever heard of it? Probably not because I can find the same product for a lot less, unless it is a fuel saver. If it is when did Honda, VW, GM, the great Chrysler (I am a Chrysler fan) or any other car company jump into MLM? You guys stink. I may consider joining a MLM (or is it an MLM) once Coke or Pepsi gets into one. Well just Coke, I am not a Pepsi fan. Plus Brugal rum goes better with Coke, but I digress. Your MLM is no different then any other, PERIOD.

I googled “Profiles of Deception”

and found no relevant links for Amway/Quixtar with that phrase. But I DID find “Merchants of Deception”, and that seemed to otherwise fit the description. Anyway, MoD is a free ebook that you can get from http://merchantsofdeception dot com/DOWNLOADBOOK dot html.

I just signed up to get the ebook and hope to get it read soon. The author, Eric Scheibeler, used to be a Scamway Emerald. There is a newsletter signup, but if you don’t want that, just unsubscribe after you read MoD.

Hope this helps.

While getting things togethter for

a garage sale I am having today, Saturday, I ran across my old Profiles of Deception gallery of diamonds. I was amazed at the number that had bitten the dust, gotten arrested, etc. etc. I left it in the heavy downpour during a thunderstrom last night by mistake… maybe it wasn’t a mistake? LOL.

It breaks my heart to read your post

I know exactly what you are saying and I know my parents must have felt exactly the same for many years. My wife and I were caught up in the amway/amo cult-like indoctrination for 16 years. We pursued “the business” at the exclusion of almost everything else in our lives. We missed many family events and contantly put the business/system at the top of our priorities. I know you can only see where you son is at now but please be assured that I believe every “ibo” has an inner voice that is constantly questioning things even if that person may not even be aware of it. The system is very good at putting up smoke screens and “creating noise” to drown out that inner voice but over time questions really do remain unanswered and in time they pile one on top of the other. Eventually there is a tipping point where the person starts to realize that things they have believed for sometimes many years may not actually be true. Your message tells me that you deeply love your son and that you will have raised him to have a reliable inner voice. Right now the system has the upper hand but, if you continue to love him and when the chance arises ask questions that may help him start to seek legitimate truthful answers for you, as opposed to what his upline and the system is telling him, I am confident that you will eventually have him back. That will be a great day and I will be praying that it comes for you sooner rather than later.

I’m upset with my Quixtar son

I wanted him to spend time with the family tonight as his sister is here from SC and will be leaving Wednesday morning. He can’t because he has plans to go to his upline’s cottage.. I told him that his family should be more important than that and that I had asked him to spend less time doing his business stuff while his sister is home. Some words were exchanged. I can’t even recall what he said right before he said ‘and it’s a thought process’. I’m usually very careful of what and how I say things, but I told him that they aren’t his thoughts; it’s what he’s been taught. He said I don’t understand and I said I’ve been trying to. His reply was that I always have a different opinon. That’s when I’m trying to say or ask rebuttal questions to get him to think.
Sometimes I feel a lot of anxiety and am desparate to get him out of this cult. I have to keep my feelings in and walk on eggshells when I talk to him. I have told him that I don’t know what to talk to him about anymore because the only thing he’s interested in is Quixtar. Even my 10 year old grandson told me that ‘Uncle Joe isn’t that much fun anymore’. Sometimes I’m just plain angry about what Quixtar has done
to him.
Thanks for listening.

Has anyone heard of this?

I have a friend that I haven’t seen in a long time who’s been involved, claims to be making money, etc (supposedly he’s a millionaire).
Good luck googling them to find anything objective. I’ve tried and they google bomb like there’s no tomorrow.
I just can’t find any useful information.
Thanks in advance for whatever help you can give.

I don’t think you’re mentally weak

I think you’re looking for something but MLM isn’t it. I won’t comment on the plan you outlined except to say that if something looks too good to be true….

Can you pinpoint what it is that ‘success’ in MLM would help you achieve?

MLMs always seem to dangle two things infront of prospects: time and money.

If it’s time – what do you want time for? What would you do if you had free time (remember that involvement with any MLM will gobble up lots of your time – are you using this to hide from doing something more creative?)

If it’s money – what do you need more money for? Could you increase your income in a more reliable way – second job, work for a promotion, change your line of work to something which pays better?

Suggest you check out Steve Hassan’s books on cult mind control – you’ll probably recognise some of the techniques which have been used on you in the past.

If more free time is your big wish because you’re a creative person Julia Cameron’s books – “The Artist’s Way” is the most famous, are an excellent starting point.

MLM can be a kind of addiction and you may need time to work your way out of it. Just refocus on what you really want and remember that MLM can’t get it for you.

And if the MLM has any ‘motivational’ materials especially tapes/CDs to listen to, keep well away from them.

Best wishes

Sounds good right?

It does but here is the rub company hasnt opened yet memberes are being asked to sign up auto ship anyway after four times of being delivered debit cards still havent been delivered no corperate headquarters or building(that Iam aware of) pay paln has been changed four times since march enrollment has been a disaster. four time have they told us to redo or up date our dowlines so while trhe deadlines come and go or the promises never kept members are still being told to buy the products.
Am I sore? You bet Is this a good company?
Dont know it just seem to be a lot of incopentncy up top You know this one I thought was the real deal with the rules being changed. or maybe My mental weakness just wanted to belive

My experiance with mlms began back in the eighties

up to the present Like most people I never made anything but belived the message that they always seemed to say (networking is the most efficent forms of marketing ever)and when ever I walked away would aways say never again In retrospect maybe there is a mental weakness I have to keep coming back .
But to make a long story very short the one reason I writing this is to bring you upto date on a new concept they are using. There are many different ways to borrow money online i.e. company Biogenxglobal was introduced to me back in marchof this year
It was promised they were different from the others in that the
1. start up cost were low
2. would have at the top of the pyramid thousands of (leaders) who had commited to bringing their dowlines with them and that when anyone signed up the computer would automatically bring their dowline under one and therfore with three enrolled at lets say each on a 68.95 auto ship order the enrolle would be paid 1590.00 a month
3. enroll 18 on a 68.95 autoship order one would be paid over eleven millon a month thats right over eleven millon a month
4. no one had to sell just enroll family members even your spouse on the auto ship order

Just to clarify, I said that “selling cigarettes” was legal..

it is a legal product just as someone pointed out MLMs were. Should they be legal is another question and should advertising them be legal is also another question.

OH well, then if its just a mode of marketing then all is well. NOT. Chuck, I was a bit suspicious when you arrived with all your “credentials” on your sleeve. I’m wondering which MLMs you are involved with….you know, the good ones. A quick google on your email address shows that you are working a program that provides a “useful product” where you simply send folks to a website and there’s “no selling involved”. Is this what you recommed to all your clients?

MLMs are not just a mode of marketing. They are a business model. An unethical, faulty one in my eyes (and I’d hazard to guess that quite a few here feel the same given the premise of this blog). Is it possible to make a dime doing them? Certainly, but at what cost? My ethics and a vast amount of money/time? Not saying that hard work ever scared me…heck I was bringing in $60k by the time I was 24 working in the real business world (we’re talking 70 hour weeks). So while there may very well be greed at the top of the MLMs, as a whole, the entire business model is the problem. Not just a few bad apples.

For all practical purposes

cigarette advertising is illegal in Canada, Australia, and New Zealand.

Most cigarette advertising is illegal in the United Kingdom.

TV and radio advertising of cigarettes has been illegal in the United States since 1971.

Print advertising is legal in most states. A voluntary industry agreement discourages print advertising of cigarattes being included in copies of magazines destined for educational institutions.

For various reasons, many publications won’t accept tobacco advertising. (One small monthly had an editorial wondering about whether or not to accept tobacco advertising. The amount that the tobacco company offered to pay for the add covered the cost of printing the entire publication. It literally would have meant the difference between a marginal financial picture and a very profitable financial picture.)

Worldwide, the majority of cigarette advertising is sponsoring events — concerts, sports competitions, cultural activities, etc.

MLM is merely a mode of marketing

It’s a mode of marketing that has been greatly abused by those driven by greed. There a some (a few businesses using MLM to market their product which are not necessarily bad. When a MLM starts to use media marketing that’s a first sign that the MLM mode is not working. Personally I would (and do) get more upset with seeing these Girls Gone Bad advertising than I do with seeing a MLM program advertising on TV.

Mary Kay announced that

they would be advertising on TV, in the near future (A proposed commercial is available on Youtube.)

A couple of other MLMs have either started, or announced that they will be advertising on TV in June and July.

My guess is that it is partially motivated by the number of bankruptcy filings and midnight closings of MLMs in the last two or so months.

And that is much the reason

I am so determined to kill the Best Buy monster before Christmas ($2300 to go). BB once harassed us on the phone for a bill they claimed we hadn’t paid on time, killed our online payments, and this was before we could pay at the store, wanted $15 to accept an “additional” $106 payment because they claimed we hadn’t paid on time. Problem was we had. I’d made certain it was after the statement shut off date from the previous month’s statement, by one week, paid it online for the current month and had a confirmation #, the money had even cleared our bank. Yet they killed my online payment and tried to charge us a late fee, although the bill was paid over 2 weeks early. We were traveling to make ends meet at that time so it was a real hassle sitting in a campground eating beans and rice and fighting with them over all the fees they were trying to charge me for a bill I had PAID!

I finally got far enough up the food chain that they finally decided to verify my confirmation # (I always keep a pdf of my online payments) and then all the sudden they were oh so sweet and nice and wanted to work with me etc. I got the fee back, they did NOT get the extra payment they were demanding and I decided right then that when it was their turn on the snowball they were GONE at the speed of lightening! It was really hard to not jump them up earlier in the line because of how angry I was with them and they were also my highest interest rate. But we’ve stuck to the pay off schedule. They’ve been the pet bill since July and we’ve knocked off nearly $1,000 a month off of it. I am seriously looking forward to the day it is GONE forever.

I agree!

My car loan payment is obnoxious…and it’s unfortunately not our next snowball, but at least when we took it out, we did a 4 year instead of the 6 or 7 year they offer now.

Our loan is through a credit union, and they have a 14 day grace period , but if you even 1 day late, you can no longer pay online! Which may not be an issue, except their site is constantly down for maintenance or problems. Their representatives say, well, you’ll just have to come in to a credit union location.

I guess it all lights fires under us to try to do something about things!

Yet another reason not to get a car loan..

Car loan statement generates around the 23rd of each month. Due by the 20th of the following month. 10 days grace without a late fee; days 11-30 $25 late fee but not reported to credit reporting co’s, days 31+ can be reported.

We are at Day 33, finally collected enough $ with the odds and ends job to make the car payment.

Went to go make the payment online. Now that a new statement has generated my account shows (correctly) the past due payment, and the current payment.

Which is enough at Hells Fargo, to CLOSE MY ABILITY TO MAKE A PAYMENT ONLINE. My only choice (their words) is “to call and make a payment over the phone. Yes there’s a fee.”

I’m like….do you get paid EXTRA to lie, and does that even make sense? Why would you make it HARDER for people to get money to you?

Answer: Well, it’s IMPORTANT that you CALL US so we can find out what’s going on. That’s why we shut it off if you go past 30 days.

I’m like, really? That’s funny, because when I CALLED YOU last month to try and work something out, you told me to jump off a cliff.

I said, so you’re saying my only option is to make a payment over the phone? I can’t send you a check?

She goes, well, yeah, you can send a check, but it’s better to make a payment over the phone. I’m like, unless you’re going to waive the “payment fee”, no thanks. I’ll send a check.

I cannot wait to pay these people off and NEVER GET ANOTHER CAR LOAN THE REST OF MY LIFE.