Not to steal Dfendel’s thunder, but..

The essence of wealth is the reshaping of natural resources to human benefit. So anyone with any talent can create wealth to some degree. I don’t just mean financial wealth, either. We can create wealth and abundance financially, spiritually, intellectually and emotionally through our rational actions.

I prefer the term “benevolence” rather than “altruism”. Benevolence means good will toward our fellow human beings but does not connote sacrifice. Altruism, on the other hand, often if not usually connotes sacrificing of self for the sake of others.

So we can do good things with our time and money for others without engaging in self-sacrifice provided those others are within our own values system. Giving blood to help a loved one or at least a benevolent stranger is not a “sacrifice”. Dedicating 15 years of your life to an Amway diamond with nothing to show for it *is* a sacrifice. Compare the feelings you experience between the two and you’ll get an idea of the contrast between benevolence and altruism.

Two excellent books by Ayn Rand that develop these ideas are THE VIRTUE OF SELFISHNESS and CAPITALISM: THE UNKNOWN IDEAL.

Altruism v. Profit

Not to belabor a quickly dying horse and thread, but the wealth that resulted from the PC and flows to people like Bill Gates, Michael Dell, Steve Jobs, etc. etc. is part of why YOU are able to spread the word so effectively


True. But
my point is, it’s not MY “wealth” that causes me to engage in these activities. I was responding to your statement that “profit and wealth have been the CAUSE of every positive advance in the history of

So what you’re saying is that, individually we can do things out of altruism, but we would not be able to do them if not for OTHERS’ wealth and profit???
Or did I miss something?

Hey everyone, I just wanted to say that I used to think all MLMs were bad

That was yesterday. Then I got introduced to a new kind of business opportunity by a complete stranger. And boy I’m glad I did.
This one’s different. They really care about people. And they have great products — products that are literally 10,000 times better than anything else out there. Unscientific tests prove it. AND you make lots of money. Yesterday I was living in an apartment. Today, I own a 5 million dollar home — AND my own business of course. This is what happens when you get involved with the RIGHT MLM. Your life changes in one day. Think about this when you generalize and say all MLMs are bad.

I moved recently from northern Illinois to SW Ohio

and was shopping in the grocery section of the local Wal-Mart a couple of days after I’d moved in, when a woman came up to me and asked me whether I was a Reds fan (I was wearing a Cubs cap – yes, I’m the longsuffering sort, I suppose – and the designs of the C’s for the Cubs and Reds are clearly different, but she was looking for any opening to strike up a conversation, as you’ll soon note). I said no, and that I had recently moved from Illinois. We introduced ourselves to each other (her name is Sondra), and then she asked me whether I’d be interested in making some extra money either full or part-time.

When I heard that, an alarm bell went off in my head (thanks in part to the horror stories I’ve read here), but I thought there was no harm in hearing her sales pitch later on, so we exchanged phone numbers and went our separate ways.

The following evening, she called me to sell me on Primerica. I didn’t want to commit to anything – even though she would have preferred that I do so – so I told her I would think about her offer to come to an initial meeting at the local PFS office the following Tuesday, then hung up.

I then went into ‘snoop mode’ via Google, and had my worst suspicions confirmed. PFS is an MLM that has, like other MLM’s, left a trail of tears in its wake. PFS tells you that via their simple interest plan, you’ll pay off your mortgage and other debts earlier, and pay less along the way. What they don’t tell you is that you will actually end up paying just as much, if not more, through their plan, and that if your financial situation ever changes and you want to restructure your plan (or if you ever miss a payment to PFS), you’re screwed, as your payments then go way up. In short, PFS gets their hooks into a lot of low-income people who have made poor financial decisions and are looking for a way out.

After finding all of this out, I called Sondra back and got voice mail – my message was ‘Thanks, but no thanks.’ She was good enough not to call back to try to pressure me any further.

I’ve been very busy the past few months, so maybe I’ve missed the PFS horror stories on this forum. Maybe some of you have Primerica stories to share. In any event, I’m glad that this forum exists, as it’s helped me to hone my BS radar.

We’ll get this straight eventually!

The book of Diamonds & up is called the “Profiles Of Success.” There are several editions of this book.

The book, “Merchants Of Deception” is an eBook by Eric Scheibeler. Other than looking in on this group from time to time, he has little connection here. He, Bo Short and my wife and I appeared on Dateline NBC to talk about the business and the tools scam.

This group was founded by Ruth Carter, who also (btw) wrote a book. Her book is called “Amway Motivational Organizations: Behind The Smoke And Mirrors.”

No, no I was talking about the fancy glossy book

with the pictures of the diamonds in it, that we all took the our meetings to “wow” those that we were trying to dupe into “the business.” I renamed it from Profile of Success to “Profiles of Deception” which is what the whole business in the Yager System was, a big scam, a big deception! The book “Merchants of Deception” is an entirely different animal written by the orignial founder (?) of this Blog.

OK I will bite

What is the name of this goofy MLM that works? I am sure that either myself or someone else in this Blog will prove you wrong. As PW says lets see the proof. Post your tax papers.
What is this product that is so great? If it is so great have I ever heard of it? Probably not because I can find the same product for a lot less, unless it is a fuel saver. If it is when did Honda, VW, GM, the great Chrysler (I am a Chrysler fan) or any other car company jump into MLM? You guys stink. I may consider joining a MLM (or is it an MLM) once Coke or Pepsi gets into one. Well just Coke, I am not a Pepsi fan. Plus Brugal rum goes better with Coke, but I digress. Your MLM is no different then any other, PERIOD.

I googled “Profiles of Deception”

and found no relevant links for Amway/Quixtar with that phrase. But I DID find “Merchants of Deception”, and that seemed to otherwise fit the description. Anyway, MoD is a free ebook that you can get from http://merchantsofdeception dot com/DOWNLOADBOOK dot html.

I just signed up to get the ebook and hope to get it read soon. The author, Eric Scheibeler, used to be a Scamway Emerald. There is a newsletter signup, but if you don’t want that, just unsubscribe after you read MoD.

Hope this helps.

It breaks my heart to read your post

I know exactly what you are saying and I know my parents must have felt exactly the same for many years. My wife and I were caught up in the amway/amo cult-like indoctrination for 16 years. We pursued “the business” at the exclusion of almost everything else in our lives. We missed many family events and contantly put the business/system at the top of our priorities. I know you can only see where you son is at now but please be assured that I believe every “ibo” has an inner voice that is constantly questioning things even if that person may not even be aware of it. The system is very good at putting up smoke screens and “creating noise” to drown out that inner voice but over time questions really do remain unanswered and in time they pile one on top of the other. Eventually there is a tipping point where the person starts to realize that things they have believed for sometimes many years may not actually be true. Your message tells me that you deeply love your son and that you will have raised him to have a reliable inner voice. Right now the system has the upper hand but, if you continue to love him and when the chance arises ask questions that may help him start to seek legitimate truthful answers for you, as opposed to what his upline and the system is telling him, I am confident that you will eventually have him back. That will be a great day and I will be praying that it comes for you sooner rather than later.